Films that break the rules of Noir.

[Mrs Vindecco]

Is the The Third Man Noir? I know this is a rather random question, but lately I keep reading and seeing things that imply that it truly belongs in the Noir stable. While I understand this perception through the lighting and brilliant, almost legendary use of shadow....



I thought it was far too European to be Noir. To be truly classified as Noir shouldn't the film in question be American. I know another Welles Noir, Touch of Evil, is set in Mexico, but it still has a North American sensibility, if that malkes sense.

The Third Man has two American leads, but the rest of the cast are European, the film was produced by a British studio and directed by a British director and made in Vienna, so it can truly classified as Noir.

There were a lot of European emigre directors that made use of the genre and in fact some scholars say that Noir derived from German Expressionism, that it was their interpretation of the USA, specifically the West Coast. Obviously there are American directors that captured the feel og the genre, Huston be the most obvious example. I just wonder if a film can be truly classified as Noir if it is borrowed somewhere else other than the States?

[woofy]

That's a good question.
I've never thought of "noir" as being distinctly American. (It's not even an English word.) For me, noir is a combination of a certain photographic technique and a certain "mysterious" attitude. I don't mean "puzzling" by that. I mean that there is usually a dead body or two and characters who fit into stereotypical "tough guy" (or gal) roles. It really has to have both. Throw in some atmospheric considerations (fog, rain) and a decent score and you have a noir film. That's why I consider The Big Sleep to be noir but Dark Passage not to be. Same stars, same tension, but the latter film is a bit too much in the daylight to qualify.
The Third Man is definitely noir, imho. It has all the elements. Where it was made and who stars in it doesn't signify.

[Mrs Vindecco]

Since we have recently been having the colourisation question. Can a film really be Noir if it is in colour? I know puritans would say no, but then there a couple of films shot in colour that do have very noirish themes. One example I always think of is "Leave To Her Heaven" which is very dark and disturbing, but is so vibrant visually it almost resembles one of Douglas Sirk's melodramas.

[woofy]

Sept 17, 2012 15:29:33 GMT Mrs Vindecco said:

Since we have recently been having the colourisation question. Can a film really be Noir if it is in colour? I know puritans would say no, but then there a couple of films shot in colour that do have very noirish themes. One example I always think of is "Leave To Her Heaven" which is very dark and disturbing, but is so vibrant visually it almost resembles one of Douglas Sirk's melodramas.

I agree with Jake Hinkson in regard to color noir films:

thenighteditor.blogspot.com/2009/11/color-noir.html

[Mrs Vindecco]

Interesting article link Woofy, thanks for sharing. Glad to see that "Leave Her to Heaven" was there. ;D







I also like that fact Chinatown is there, it's a brilliant film. It also has the right look, it feels authentic, in a way that The Long Goodbye doesn't. HOwever I know there are a lot of people that prefer TLG to Chinatown.

[woofy]

Leave Her To Heaven is hard for me to watch because I have always been gaga over Gene Tierney.
Chinatown may be the quintessential "color noir" film. (Maybe I should write "noir en colour"?)